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	<title>Comments on: CopyBot: Endgame or Detour?</title>
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	<link>http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/</link>
	<description>On the road of Second Life®, there are passengers and there are drivers.  Erbo Evans has a Chrysler that's as big as a whale, and it's about to set sail...</description>
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		<title>By: The Trouble With libsecondlife &#171; Evans Avenue Exit</title>
		<link>http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-297</link>
		<dc:creator>The Trouble With libsecondlife &#171; Evans Avenue Exit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 23:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-297</guid>
		<description>[...]  Jump to Comments I touched on the libsecondlife project to a certain degree when I talked about CopyBot back in November, but a recent comment on that post reminds me that this subject is worth [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Jump to Comments I touched on the libsecondlife project to a certain degree when I talked about CopyBot back in November, but a recent comment on that post reminds me that this subject is worth [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Erbo</title>
		<link>http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-295</link>
		<dc:creator>Erbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-295</guid>
		<description>Prok, I have &lt;i&gt;never&lt;/i&gt; been associated with the libsecondlife group, and, after everything that&#039;s happened, I&#039;m not sure I &lt;i&gt;ever&lt;/i&gt; want to be associated with it.  And this should be a &lt;i&gt;major&lt;/i&gt; cause for concern on &lt;i&gt;their&lt;/i&gt; part--if their reputation is causing people to be scared away from becoming possible contributors to the &lt;i&gt;legitimate&lt;/i&gt; reverse-engineering of SL and development of their library, then it&#039;s interfering with their primary mission and needs to be addressed &lt;i&gt;double-pronto.&lt;/i&gt;

I still think that the right answer is for LL to take a more active role in the sponsorship of the libsecondlife project, say, by creating a foundation to hold the copyrights to the code and serve as a centerpoint for development, ala Apache or Jabber (and yes, those models have drawbacks...BUT they&#039;ve also been very effective within their scope).  But, in order to accomplish this, the existing leadership is going to have to cede some control...and if their motives &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; as you say, this is probably not bloody likely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prok, I have <i>never</i> been associated with the libsecondlife group, and, after everything that&#8217;s happened, I&#8217;m not sure I <i>ever</i> want to be associated with it.  And this should be a <i>major</i> cause for concern on <i>their</i> part&#8211;if their reputation is causing people to be scared away from becoming possible contributors to the <i>legitimate</i> reverse-engineering of SL and development of their library, then it&#8217;s interfering with their primary mission and needs to be addressed <i>double-pronto.</i></p>
<p>I still think that the right answer is for LL to take a more active role in the sponsorship of the libsecondlife project, say, by creating a foundation to hold the copyrights to the code and serve as a centerpoint for development, ala Apache or Jabber (and yes, those models have drawbacks&#8230;BUT they&#8217;ve also been very effective within their scope).  But, in order to accomplish this, the existing leadership is going to have to cede some control&#8230;and if their motives <i>are</i> as you say, this is probably not bloody likely.</p>
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		<title>By: Prokofy Neva</title>
		<link>http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-294</link>
		<dc:creator>Prokofy Neva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jan 2007 12:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-294</guid>
		<description>This continues to be a social issue, even more than a technical issues, and as such, is not solved by purely technical means. Funny you should accuse me of being &quot;ripshit,&quot; when you yourself call for libsl to &quot;clean house&quot;. Indeed, the whole reason I was &quot;ripshit&quot; was because they didn&#039;t at all clean house, and haven&#039;t to this day. It was immoral to use this device to terrorize people; to sell it; to sell its anti-dote; to claim falsely it was under control; to pay a source to lie to journalists; to fake an apology; etc etc -- there are a whole series of actions of bad faith. 

The right thing to do is to disassociate from this group and leave it. To this day, it fills up with W-Hat griefer alts and is a haven for irresponsible sandbox script kiddies. The Lindens should have pulled their own staff out of it, and should have done a lot more than they have to make it clear that while they are sanctioning the reverse-engineering of their platform, they aren&#039;t sanctioning the use of the results of that work for griefing and harming other residents. 

It&#039;s just happened over and over again -- God-stalking, the megaprims, CopyBot, and Campbot -- all griefing and terrorizing people while libsl just laughs in the IRC channel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This continues to be a social issue, even more than a technical issues, and as such, is not solved by purely technical means. Funny you should accuse me of being &#8220;ripshit,&#8221; when you yourself call for libsl to &#8220;clean house&#8221;. Indeed, the whole reason I was &#8220;ripshit&#8221; was because they didn&#8217;t at all clean house, and haven&#8217;t to this day. It was immoral to use this device to terrorize people; to sell it; to sell its anti-dote; to claim falsely it was under control; to pay a source to lie to journalists; to fake an apology; etc etc &#8212; there are a whole series of actions of bad faith. </p>
<p>The right thing to do is to disassociate from this group and leave it. To this day, it fills up with W-Hat griefer alts and is a haven for irresponsible sandbox script kiddies. The Lindens should have pulled their own staff out of it, and should have done a lot more than they have to make it clear that while they are sanctioning the reverse-engineering of their platform, they aren&#8217;t sanctioning the use of the results of that work for griefing and harming other residents. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s just happened over and over again &#8212; God-stalking, the megaprims, CopyBot, and Campbot &#8212; all griefing and terrorizing people while libsl just laughs in the IRC channel.</p>
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		<title>By: AllieKat Stovall</title>
		<link>http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>AllieKat Stovall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Nov 2006 22:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-204</guid>
		<description>Well, in the last few days i have noticed that the &quot;copybot phenomenon&quot; as i have come to call it, has fizzled into the obscure domain of has been articles. shop owners have shut down as a knee jerk reaction to the news that this had been released. with the more news that i get from my sources(remainig unnamed to protect identities of those involved) the less i am apt to believe that copybot can be all that dangerous, being that as was stated in the main post, and i had actually brought the thought to life, is the ones that wold be apt to do no good with it are the veteren SL&#039;ers that have a grudge against someone, and those that can manipulate code.(possibly a big rarity in the SL world.) and those like me who dont know any better. for all that dont know i am an IT professional and a netadmin for the local college in my town, mostly on an oncall basis due to college funding. my staff consists of 3 full time local college grad&#039;s and 4 interns. (i&#039;m there more than i am selling insurance...) however i digress.
     i didnt even know this was possible, nor did i really care. however i figured, and was noted by the spike in L$ sellbacks, that the copybot and ensuing closures, has affected the economy inside the grid, mostly for those involved. the closures have cut the L$ income of the creators themselves, and hast really affected my pocket book, i just take my L$ elsewhere, as have quite a few of my shopping pals. so all in all was copybot bad for SL, well it depends on who you talk to. 
      i may be saving up in the next few months to possibly open a small furniture store in the near future, hopefully by the end of the year, but hopefully before february. i will have to let everyone know to come and check it out =) lord knows i will need the help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, in the last few days i have noticed that the &#8220;copybot phenomenon&#8221; as i have come to call it, has fizzled into the obscure domain of has been articles. shop owners have shut down as a knee jerk reaction to the news that this had been released. with the more news that i get from my sources(remainig unnamed to protect identities of those involved) the less i am apt to believe that copybot can be all that dangerous, being that as was stated in the main post, and i had actually brought the thought to life, is the ones that wold be apt to do no good with it are the veteren SL&#8217;ers that have a grudge against someone, and those that can manipulate code.(possibly a big rarity in the SL world.) and those like me who dont know any better. for all that dont know i am an IT professional and a netadmin for the local college in my town, mostly on an oncall basis due to college funding. my staff consists of 3 full time local college grad&#8217;s and 4 interns. (i&#8217;m there more than i am selling insurance&#8230;) however i digress.<br />
     i didnt even know this was possible, nor did i really care. however i figured, and was noted by the spike in L$ sellbacks, that the copybot and ensuing closures, has affected the economy inside the grid, mostly for those involved. the closures have cut the L$ income of the creators themselves, and hast really affected my pocket book, i just take my L$ elsewhere, as have quite a few of my shopping pals. so all in all was copybot bad for SL, well it depends on who you talk to.<br />
      i may be saving up in the next few months to possibly open a small furniture store in the near future, hopefully by the end of the year, but hopefully before february. i will have to let everyone know to come and check it out =) lord knows i will need the help.</p>
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		<title>By: Ordinal Malaprop</title>
		<link>http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-200</link>
		<dc:creator>Ordinal Malaprop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Nov 2006 20:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-200</guid>
		<description>I would predict that the introduction of corporate identities to Second Life would indeed reduce the perceived badness of copying their designs, just as many people will quite happily duplicate and distribute music that legally belongs to a large company, whereas they would not do the same when a small band is involved, particularly if they know them personally.

And it is certainly not for me to criticise that position.

On the other hand, corporations in Second Life distribute goods not for the value of L$ sales but for publicity at this moment, so this would not make any difference to them. The telling point might come when someone starts to sell items on the Grid which actually provide services - say, tailored prims with scripts which enable downloads. If an exploit which attacked those became known, and the Laboratory immediately and decisively acted to crush any possibility of it, well, we would know where their allegiances lay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would predict that the introduction of corporate identities to Second Life would indeed reduce the perceived badness of copying their designs, just as many people will quite happily duplicate and distribute music that legally belongs to a large company, whereas they would not do the same when a small band is involved, particularly if they know them personally.</p>
<p>And it is certainly not for me to criticise that position.</p>
<p>On the other hand, corporations in Second Life distribute goods not for the value of L$ sales but for publicity at this moment, so this would not make any difference to them. The telling point might come when someone starts to sell items on the Grid which actually provide services &#8211; say, tailored prims with scripts which enable downloads. If an exploit which attacked those became known, and the Laboratory immediately and decisively acted to crush any possibility of it, well, we would know where their allegiances lay.</p>
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		<title>By: Erbo</title>
		<link>http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator>Erbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2006 22:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-196</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s an interesting &lt;i&gt;philosophical&lt;/i&gt; angle to the issue that I hadn&#039;t considered...it makes sense, of course, and it&#039;s helped by the fact that every single object in the world is tagged with its creator&#039;s name and profile link, showing the &quot;real face&quot; of the person you&#039;d be ripping off by copying their item.

One question it &lt;i&gt;does&lt;/i&gt; beg is, will this perception on the part of Residents change over time as more of them enter the world, and particularly as more identifiably &quot;corporate&quot; goods (American Apparel clothes, Adidas shoes, Nissan Sentras, etc.) enter the world as well?  That&#039;s a question that can&#039;t really be answered yet; perhaps in a year or so, we&#039;ll know more.  It also sort of reduces to the general question of what effect corporate influence will have on the community...which has been asked by many people in the SL community, and which is not a new question by any means; the members of Electric Minds were debating this topic back in 1997 when that community was acquired by Durand Communications.

For now, at least, the community is &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; falling apart at the seams, many of the merchants who closed in protest of the CopyBot have reopened, and even some people who had been up in arms at the original news now seem to agree it&#039;s more of a tempest in a teapot.  And, far from scaring anyone off, the rate of new signups has &lt;i&gt;increased...&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an interesting <i>philosophical</i> angle to the issue that I hadn&#8217;t considered&#8230;it makes sense, of course, and it&#8217;s helped by the fact that every single object in the world is tagged with its creator&#8217;s name and profile link, showing the &#8220;real face&#8221; of the person you&#8217;d be ripping off by copying their item.</p>
<p>One question it <i>does</i> beg is, will this perception on the part of Residents change over time as more of them enter the world, and particularly as more identifiably &#8220;corporate&#8221; goods (American Apparel clothes, Adidas shoes, Nissan Sentras, etc.) enter the world as well?  That&#8217;s a question that can&#8217;t really be answered yet; perhaps in a year or so, we&#8217;ll know more.  It also sort of reduces to the general question of what effect corporate influence will have on the community&#8230;which has been asked by many people in the SL community, and which is not a new question by any means; the members of Electric Minds were debating this topic back in 1997 when that community was acquired by Durand Communications.</p>
<p>For now, at least, the community is <i>not</i> falling apart at the seams, many of the merchants who closed in protest of the CopyBot have reopened, and even some people who had been up in arms at the original news now seem to agree it&#8217;s more of a tempest in a teapot.  And, far from scaring anyone off, the rate of new signups has <i>increased&#8230;</i></p>
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		<title>By: Ordinal Malaprop</title>
		<link>http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator>Ordinal Malaprop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2006 21:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-195</guid>
		<description>One thing that I discussed with sundry libsecondlife folk at the meeting from which I posted photography on my entry was the issue of watermarking via script. We bantered back and forth on the practicalities - I consider it a system that could be implemented without extraordinary issues - but the basic point remains that it is only valuable for people who wish to ascertain whether their item is an original or not. For those who don&#039;t care, it does not matter.

One thing that I have noticed, though, is that even the newest of new residents, once they understand that almost everything they see has been made by someone &quot;real&quot;, tends to agree that it is not reasonable to make individual copies. Some of this rests, I think, on the fact that everyone who makes anything in Second Life can be seen right there and then and talked to; they are not distant impersonal corporations in the main. As well as that, many new residents have ambitions to become creators themselves, and sympathise.

We need not appeal to artificial constraints such as &quot;copyright&quot; in my opinion, which is often connected in the Other Place with drastically unfair legal restrictions - simple concern for others who are identifiable as actual people is universal enough to result in those breaching it encountering most definite social pressure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that I discussed with sundry libsecondlife folk at the meeting from which I posted photography on my entry was the issue of watermarking via script. We bantered back and forth on the practicalities &#8211; I consider it a system that could be implemented without extraordinary issues &#8211; but the basic point remains that it is only valuable for people who wish to ascertain whether their item is an original or not. For those who don&#8217;t care, it does not matter.</p>
<p>One thing that I have noticed, though, is that even the newest of new residents, once they understand that almost everything they see has been made by someone &#8220;real&#8221;, tends to agree that it is not reasonable to make individual copies. Some of this rests, I think, on the fact that everyone who makes anything in Second Life can be seen right there and then and talked to; they are not distant impersonal corporations in the main. As well as that, many new residents have ambitions to become creators themselves, and sympathise.</p>
<p>We need not appeal to artificial constraints such as &#8220;copyright&#8221; in my opinion, which is often connected in the Other Place with drastically unfair legal restrictions &#8211; simple concern for others who are identifiable as actual people is universal enough to result in those breaching it encountering most definite social pressure.</p>
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		<title>By: Evans Avenue Exit</title>
		<link>http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-194</link>
		<dc:creator>Evans Avenue Exit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2006 16:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://evansavenue.wordpress.com/2006/11/16/copybot-endgame-or-detour/#comment-194</guid>
		<description>[...] CopyBot: Endgame or Detour? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] CopyBot: Endgame or Detour? [...]</p>
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